This was a great win, warts and all. Yes, there are a multitude of problems that need fixing, but there were MANY positives gained from this victory. We have been saying since the middle of preseason that the defense needed time to come together- they are buying time with wins. Phil Simms said before the game that the Giants defense gives up the big play and that that would cost us the game. Well, he was right, but he did not know that the Giants would have a +4 turnover ratio. Dallas beat themselves with those turnovers, so DO NOT try giving back this win with all the warts we had. Collect a nice win, move on to next week, fix the problems, get PEOPLE BACK HEALTHY and improve the defense.
The GOOD
1) The Giants have their #1 Wide Receiver, his name is Mario Manningham (10 catches for 150 yds) and to quote Al Michaels, he is their "budding star." Look over to the right side of the blog and give yourselves a pat on the back- you saw Mario Manningham as the breakout WR for the Giants this year, LONG BEFORE ANYONE ELSE. (Okay, let's throw a bone to Peter King, he was there too.)
2) Eli Manning (330 yds, 2 TDs) was tremendous. Cool as a cucumber in the 2 minute offense. Evaded pressure with poise in the pocket all night. He did it all.
3) Steve Smith (10 catches for 134 yds) is the Rock of Gibraltar. You can lean on him, clutch, reliable, money. Did you see that move he put on Scandrick for the TD? He left him in a different zip code.
4) The Bruce Johnson INT for a TD is how you win on the road. Make impact plays and make the home team pay for their mistakes. That was a huge lift for the team because this game could have been a rout early, the way that Dallas was dominating. Antonio Pierce is slowing down on defense but he changed the defense when Romo audibled and that set up Johnson.
5) Pass protection was good. Wonder and I disagree on this one. Wonder felt the protection was not good and that Eli Manning's pocket presence did it all, that there were plenty of times Dallas guys were getting through. There were no sacks, that is GOOD enough for us.
6) PLUS FOUR TURNOVER RATIO.
7) Ahmad Bradshaw was a jack of all trades. Picked up blitzes, pushed the pile, got respectable yardage when Jacobs was having trouble.
8) The defensive secondary did enough things well to be on the other side of Romo going for 13 for 29 with 3 INTs. Romo may have been tied with Eli for the Giants MVP, but the DBs played well in pass coverage. Phillips was playing hurt or else this unit will look better in run coverage. We could have used Gibril Wilson out there to clean up all of the run defense mistakes.
The Bad
1) OL run blocking did not get the surge. Wonder asks aloud if these guys have lost something from last year. Jacobs likes getting the handoff about 28 yards behind the line of scrimmage so that he can have a running start and a head of steam, but the problem is that he was getting greeted at the line of scrimmage too often and the plays look too slow-devloping.
2) Kickoff returns
3) Kickoff coverage
The Ugly (aka "warts")
1) RUN DEFENSE was GASHED repeatedly. The DL was blown off the ball, Osi overpursued (creating wide gaps), our LBers are too slow. Boley was gassed and was out there far longer than he should have been, considering it was his first game back. Yes, it was hot and hurt both DLs, but there is no excuse for 251 yards. Would we have been aided by rotation with Tuck and Canty? Yes. But it has to improve.
2) This game, like the Redskins game, could have been over much earlier in the evening if the Red Zone offense could do better that 0 for 3 for 2 FGs.
3) Gilbride did not call Kevin Boss's number ONCE in the red zone. Instead, in this mission critical area, we get balls thrown to Hedgecock and pitchouts to Bradshaw
(See Rule #5, AGAIN!). Brilliant. NOT.
4) If Tuck's injury is serious.
Yes, the Giants were dominated at the line of scrimmage. When you have difficulties running the ball AND you give up 251 yards at the point of attack, you will not survive for very long if that does not get straightened out.
We have been complaining about the inadequacies of Kevin Gilbride for over a year now, but it has gotten so bad that even Al Michaels and Cris Collinsworth now are talking about it on National TV.
Re kickoffs, each team was getting a runback of ~22 yards per kick. But their kicker makes us start from 2 yards inside the endzone while ours (thanks to Tynes' weak leg) makes our coverage of kicks start from the +10 yard line. So we get out to the 20 and they are at the 32. Bad.
With all of this, the game is still in the WIN column. GOOD FOR THE GIANTS. COLLECT THE "W" and move on to the next game. Thankfully the playoffs do not start for another 16 weeks, so there is PLENTY OF TIME TO IMPROVE. We need time to heal. We need time for Boley to get his legs. We need time for Canty, Ross, Dockery and Sintim to get back. This win was well deserved and well earned in a great fight. The most exciting part of the game is watching Mario Manningham grow up before our very eyes. This has very good long term implications for the team.
Monday, September 21, 2009
NY Giants 33 Dallas 31
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44 comments:
Andy---I agree that Boss needs to be more of a force in the red zone. And I wasnt too happy w/a few of Gilbride's play calls in the red zone (esp that Bradshaw toss play)
But I also think our WR's and Boss simply have to do a better job of getting open in this area of the field. Look at that 1st drive--Hixon should have had a catch at the 1...but he ran a poor route and allowed the Dallas CB to undercut him and break up the pass.
Also, looking at several of the replays of red zone plays....Boss was simply NOT OPEN. Manning would often have to check down to his 3rd or 4th read in this area.
Some of its playcalling but I think alot of it is simply that our players need to execute better.
Watching a game like last night several lifetimes unfold. There must have been half a dozen times I was sitting there in stunned disbelief at our team. Here's one example: 3rd and goal from the 12 throw a pass to the 10. I mean, WTF sports fans? On the flip side there's the interceptions, there's Manningham's dash verve and hands, Smith's consistency, and Eli's clutch excellence.
On the one hand there's the Giants getting totally outplayed and dominated at the line of scrimmage. And yet they won the game. You play to win the game. Where have I heard that before?
Excellent analysis by you Andy F.
P.S. I wonder if their running attack is missing Matthews the TE who went to the Patriots.
Yanks
I agree about the first drive on not getting open but other than that most of the other red zone opportunities where squandered because of playcalling
Dallas did not dominate this game. They did one thing good. They ran the ball to the right. Take that away and they did nothing. They never got to Eli and could not cover our WR's. Yes they shut down the run but that left Mario and Smith wide open most of the night. The blitz pickups and the OL where outstanding in the passing game last night. Yes, as wonder points out, Eli had to make a few moves to buy time but he dropped back 39 times. You can’t keep him clean all the time. I lost count how many times the girls came with 5 or 6 guys and Eli had no one around him. Remember that the other guys get paid too. The oline and the backs did a great job of picking up those blitzes. If killdrive did not insist on running the ball all night and having no creativity in the red zone it's not a close game.
Our Dl and blitz put enough pressure on Romo and our secondary did outstanding in coverage. Romo was making bad throws because he was pressured and his receivers where not open most of the night.
On another subject, I am not a Jets fan but I like to see them do well. With that said, I LOVE REX RYAN. Saw him and heard him talk for the first time yesterday. I thought he was a black guy LOL. Shows you how much I have been paying attention lately. I would not be the least bit surprise if we get a subway super bowl this year. When you put pressure on a QB even Tom Brady becomes less than ordinary. Tom was missing open guys all day.
Kenny Philips is just not the same player with that bad knee of his. His is still very good but when he is 100% his is borderline great. Its going to suck having him hurt all season long.
Don't underestimate how big this is. We go down to Dallas's new $1.3 billion palace and quiet 105,000+ and now we have taken control of our Division at 2-0.
We were worried about our WR's, but no more. We have "Super Mario" He seems to have that elusive factor that is rare. Both he & Steve Smith run very precise routes and Eli has the utmost confidence in both of them. Eli is releasing the ball before they make their cuts and he knows they will be there. We will be even better when Nicks returns.
Eli is simply amazing in the hurry up or 2 minute drill. I wonder why we don't go to it a little more during the game. Maybe just once or twice a game to add a spark.
Andy, I'm glad you made mention of Jacobs being so far behind the line of scrimmage when running out of the eye. That full head of steam he wants is not working. I said last week on the blog that he hits the hole way too slowly. I hope he can adjust his thinking.
Dallas was committed last night to stopping the run. Everyone knows that is the best way to beat the Giants. It would have worked also if not for Tony Romo's poor play.
On a very sour note...the injuries are piling up. This cannot continue if we are to have a successful season.
Next week we face a desperate 0-2 team. We will have to do things better on Offense & Defense to keep this up.
To YanksFan13...
I think the Red Zone woes are mostly on Killdrive. As stated by Carl Banks..."our formations are too tight. We become predictable." If Boss is set out wide he will be a force. He "WILL" be open if we change our approach.
YanksFan13- There were a total of 9 plays the Giants had in the red zone. 4 were runs, 2 to Hixon, 1 to Hedgecock, which left a grand total of 2 plays available for Boss (Smith and Jacobs). I think those last 2 were checkdowns, but I only remember one of those plays where I saw Boss covered. Even so, even if it was a total of 2 plays- he still is a BIG target, and as you say, he needs to get more oppty there. You have to be looking for him on EVERY series down there. (Witten was covered, had only a half step and they made that count for a TD.)
One way to immediately improve is to have Manningham IN and Hixon out. Manningham can get separation.
Pastime- I disagree, felt Dallas dominated in many areas. But the other 95% of what you said was spot on.
Where is Nature? I hope his head didn't explode because of Killdrive. Mine almost did.
Mitch
Agree 100%
Btw- Kudos to Pastime, correct me if I am wrong, he (and Warren Sapp!!) was the only person to call for a Giants win.
Andy
I thought we were friends. WARREN SAPP. OMG. I have to start looking for a new blog. Problem is, no one knows what the $%&* they are talking about.
Kudo's too all the others who post on here. The analysis is always good.
BTW...
Kenny Phillips made an absolutely amazing interception. What awareness he had...I replayed it and there was no whistle. It should have been a Defensive TD.
Also...
To all of the area newspapers...it is time to make the public aware of Kevin Killdrive. They have to start writing articles about him. We at ultimategiant know what he is. He is just awful...I just can't take it.
You are right PP. I always look forward to the analysis here...but you are right...
What happened to Nature?
I want to be the first to go on record for this.
Please, Please, Please, Tom, do not use the wildcat formation... ever.
Osi looked lost against the run. I don't think he's ever been known as a run stopper, but on some of those long runs, not only did he lose control of the gap, it looked like he didn't even know where the ball was
A few thoughts...
Tonight wasn't a game for Boss/the RBs in the passing game. They needed to give too much help in pass protection. Then, in the red zone having fewer receivers in pattern really becomes a problem because you can basically bracket the WRs with the CBs and safeties.
Instead, I think the red zone would have been the time to run straight ahead with Jacobs. Especially on longer drives where the defense is getting tired.
With the emergence of Manningham, we should be able to start putting Hixon on kickoff returns again, no?
Dallas had a lot of success against our aggressive defense running draws/designed cutbacks. It seemed like we should have been doing the same thing against theirs with Bradshaw.
Eli looks older. I always thought he looked young and scared, even when he was playing well (even in the Super Bowl), but his composure level is much better now.
Rob, I agree with the fact that they had to keep the extra TE and RB in to pass protect but there is more to it. By spreading the field out such as lining Boss wide, Bradshaw wide or even a 4 receiver set this will force the defense from loading the box. The Cowgirls LBs were very very aggressive and we didn't counter that aggrssion with Boss and quick slants. One screen play was called but was called back for a holding on Seubert (to Boss of all people).
The DL gap control was awful and yes, Andy, the LBs were slow but also manhandled at point of attack. Hope time and re-cooperation will help this DL overcome that horrific performance. Granted a few players need to adjust to their new scheme: Boley, Canty and Bernard. Osi needs to be more disciplined.
I was watching the game with a friend last night and on the first Giants trip to the red zone I said they should bring in 4 wides and do a QB draw up the middle. The gosh darn girls do it later on in the game. I'm not a coach nor a player. I'm just a guy who like football so why do i know this and the giants don't?
I agree entirely with Rob: Hixon absolutely needs to be back returning kicks, for two reasons.
1) First, the Giants seem to be allergic to excellent field position. Willie Ponder leads the league in kickoff returns a few years ago, so what do they do? Cut him and make Brian Mitchell (a.k.a. by my family as "Father Time") the returner, if I'm not mistaken. During the Giants' 2007 SB run, Hixon gives them fantastic starting field position every time, so what do they do? Replace him with pretty much anyone wearing a helmet. Put him back there, where he's proven to excel, and he'll put a tremendous amount of pressure both on opposing special teams and defenses.
2) Hixon seems kind of lost right now. It makes sense, what with all of the media speculation about which young receiver is going to step up and take his job. Coughlin should tell him not to listen to all of the talk and instead to think about doing his absolute best to help his team on kick returns. Tell him to think about guys like Leon Washington, Josh Cribbs, and the old Devin Hester: does anyone consider their work on returns marginal to their teams? I think that making him a kick return specialist and, for a while at least, only a situational receiver might actually really boost his confidence and get him back to a place where he's a serious every-game difference-maker for the team.
Andy,
Gilbride calls the same stretch running play two weeks in a row at about the same area. Last night, Dallas knew the play was coming. Bradshaw was tackled for a seven yard loss. After the game, even Eli was vocal. He told NBC's Kramer, this red zone area is killing us. We need to score touchdowns.
At this point, if Gilbride continues the error of his ways, he should be fired. Coughlin should take over the play calling.
Got this from the Dallas Morning Star. I believe this was why we won and the didn't even though we could not stop the run nor run the ball ourselves.
"Where Romo failed, Manning did not. The Giants quarterback completed 25-of-38 passes for 330 yards and two touchdowns. Manning, who was sacked eight times the last time these teams met, wasn't sacked once."
Raymond
Well said and I agree 100%
A very bizarre game. Is is comical that so many false expectations and questions about the NYG were blown away yesterday.
(1)The " young receivers" concern.
blown away....What a huge mistake it would have been to bring in a Bolden or Edwards......in Reese we trust.
(2)The "secondary is hurt & weak" concern...they were stars yesterday. Hopefully Ross & Dockerty heal soon. We really need Phillips healthy.
(3)all the hype in the preseason re how awesome our D line would be this year, "terrifying opposing QB's "......well not exactly.even before Tuck was hurt.
The Boys ran thru us like we were swiss cheese.No sacks, not much pressure on Romo
This will improve with Tuck/Canty
back. I'm only trying to point out how far off the early expectations were, as of yesterday.
(4)For all the talk about Eli's new contract, he earned every penny of it yesterday.
(5)Too little talk about Killdrive and Red Zone efficiency. This is the major problem that TC must address that threatens our ability to go anywhere this year. Particularly bad as it was the major issue at end 2008 and is STILL NOT RESOLVED. I hope this is not lost in the euphoria after yesterdays win.
i noticed boss not being utilized in the pass game: a shame. but this is also a reason manning had better protection. choose ur poison. still a couple more plays his way. same with the other tes instead of hedgecock who was 0 for whatever.
mario, mario, mario--what quickness. smith runs fantastic routes. i say when nicks and hixon returns put hixon back returning both punts and ko and use him less at wr.
injuries cbs, wrs, dts--include tuck. boy, are we banged up.
our dl got its ass kicked by dallas again. tackling was not that great.
gilbride did have some questionable calls inside the 20, but i loved how he started the game w/ passes cuz dallas was stacking the line. we are having more success with deep balls this year like i predicted.
i'll take the win!
"Sinorice Moss came in for the first three-receiver set, as he lined up as part of a bunch formation. But the next time the Giants lined up in three wides, Derek Hagan joined Manningham and Steve Smith. Hagan remained the third receiver the rest of the night."
Whats up with that? Anybody know. Moss did nothing on Kick returns but he was never good at that.
Would love to see a red zone formation with 3 TEs and Hedgecock and Jacobs...our WRs are good at getting open, very good actually, but not as good at fighting for the ball in close quarters. And that's important inside the 20.
I also liked Dallas' 3 RB (or at least 3 players in the backfield) set. As discussed before, would be good to use a fake blast to Jacobs and toss wide to Bradshaw.
With Osi killing us yesterday, maybe Sheriden was right to ride Osi during camp. Maybe when he watches the film today he will learn something.
I was just thinking, in the playoff game of 2007, the girls pretty much did the same thing to us in the first half of that game until Adams went out with an injury. Last night, at full strength, the girls just manhandle our DL in the run game. Maybe we just don't match up well with them. I remember in the late 80's we where 10 and 0 going into Philly and the beat us easily. Sometimes you just don't match up well and that just might be the case with the girls. The only way we beat them is to outscore them in a high scoring affair.
Pastime Princess -- I agree on the matchup problem with the Dallas O-line. I think that the size vs. speed matchup becomes more problematic as the game goes on. And given our inability to run/shorten the game/control the clock last night, their size advantage became more apparent.
Raymond Sultan said: "I think that making him a kick return specialist and, for a while at least, only a situational receiver might actually really boost his confidence and get him back to a place where he's a serious every-game difference-maker for the team."
Brilliant! Sometimes we find our niche (like Joba Chamberlain when he was a reliever) and we don't even know it. Time to resurrect the big-play Dominick.
I said it before and ill say it again; trade hixon. He still has value and we dont need him. Smith and Mario should be starting from here on out and Nicks as our slot. Where was Nicks??? didnt see him once.
Philips looked pretty good for a bad knee.
W.R.T. the run D, Giants over persue, which is why Osi was out of position a lot of the time. Safeties a step slower bc of the injuries, Boley 1st game back, This will be fixed.
Tuck said he should be playing next week
I DO NOT understand the pass to Hedgecock in the red zone. Hedgecock barely sees the ball, so he's likely best used as a "surprise" recipient, right? But a pass in the flat to Hedgecock when this team has so many other offensive weapons? That was NOT a checkdown, that was a designed play meant for Hedgecock. Look, I love the FB and he deserves to see the rock every once in a while. But not in a critical area like that. Not utilizing Boss or Beckum is simply not excusable.
Coughlin needs to get Gilbride's head screwed on straight. This guy is simply not doing his job right now. Neither game should have been even close.
Sorry but with a +4 Turnover ratio a team simply should not need a last second field goal to win. It never should have been this close.
Gilbride MUST get better, even if it means Coughlin taking a more active role in the offense. This is starting to get extremely frustrating and it's been game after game after game now.
during the game, Michaels pointed out Beatty came in and played LT. i dunno how long he was in but Al Michaels didnt mention it so that is good seeing he is against Ware
Hey fellas please easy on the OSI talk...he has 1 bad game against the run now he cant stop the run? cut it out....the main problem with our run game was the LB's. guys if you look at there long runs our LBs were not even there to be a diversions...they seem to all be out of position if a good LB gets blocked you will still have to run aroundhim being blocked, our guys were getting mad handled. also micheal johnson stunk it up. he took a bad pursuit angle on 2 of BARBERS runs and missed a number of tackles that could of held plays to less yard.
#72 is an ALL AROUND defensive end...cant remember who said it but the person who think he is overrated or what ever the comment was please name me 5 better guys
PAST TIME i was actually monitoring the blog couldnt post local internet problem (i have COMCAST) dont need to explain that. couldnt believe some of the redzone play calls and lack of playpass....
people take 1 sec and go look at the first post from the INTRAGAME comments. No really go read it i will give you a second...... thats was 15-20mins b4 kick-off. how did i know that would happen? because i KNOW GILBRIDE SUX.
KEVIN GILBRIDE sux...bad.....very bad. i cant believe this guys still has a job. cant believe its not talked about more on ESPN or NFL NETWORK. why does it seem that only the people of the blog world can see it. TC has to be blamed now, he hire the brownhead so its his blame...don't be surprised if Boss grows his hair long gets a USA FLAG tattoo and start wanting out because he doesn't feel wanted.
hey guys i googled kevin gilbride sucks look what came up. its from '03 and this guy is a BILLs fan take a look
http://www.angelfire.com/pro/ineedmoney/gilbride.html
how funny is that!
Nature
It was I that dissed Osi. Never though he was a great player and don't thing I ever will because he is not. He is fine in passing situations but against the run he his mediocre at best. He should be a 3rd down specialist. I can't think of 5 better DE’s because I don't know jack about other teams, I just know mine. When Tuck or Stray are/where in the game and are/where getting all the attention he did well. When they are/where out (like last night) he did nothing but give up one big play after another.
In 07 with Tuck and Stray the defense was GREAT
In 08 without Stray but with Tuck (even hurt) they where very very good.
In 09 without Stray and Tuck…. 251 yards on the ground. Granted, we don’t match up with the girls very well because of their gigantic OL but I believe Osi is a big part of that.
I hope I’m wrong and will gladly eat crow if he proves me wrong.
you cant base base Osi's run defense in one game. there were 10 other guys on the field, and Tuck was on the field for most of the game
I have always felt Osi was an above average pass rusher and average against the run so I'm not basing this on one game. I do think people think he is better than he is because of the players around him.
I felt the same way about Emmit Smith. He was an above average back who benefited from a great team around him. Put him on another team and he is just another NFL back, good but not great.
I hope I'm wrong and will gladly shove my own foot in my mouth if it means winning. Heck, I though at the beginning of Tiki's career they should have cut him. He couldn't hold onto the ball and he couldn't catch it out of the backfield. I love being wrong about that one.
This game should go down as the lucky bounce game. We were the beneficiaries of three tremendous bounces.
The Manningham TD where he fails to catch the ball cleanly, but while lying on his back the ball falls into his chest. What is the likelihood of that happening when the WR doesn't make the grab initially?
The miraculous bounce off Wittens' ass to his foot to Kenny Phillips chest! That ball was thrown so poorly and our DB was so out of the play that had he actually been closer he doesn't make that INT.
And finally, on the last drive on 3rd and 4, the ball is batted at the line of scrimmage into the air, for a completion. What is the likelihood of that. How many times out of 100 does that ball fall incomplete or get Intercepted?
We got incredible breaks. We took advantage of them. But we were Manhandled! We lost both lines of scrimmage. If the TO ratio was not 4-0 we simply dont win the game. But the mark of good teams is that they somehow manage to win even when they don't play their best. That goes a long way.
Now, next week the rest of the NFL is going to start trying to ram the football down our throats. Lets see which Giants team we are. The one that shut down the Redskins or the one that was pushed aside by the Cowboys.
BTW, do you think the cowboys are starting to have some doubts about Romo's big game capabilities?
crazed Giants fan
agree 100%
Add to your comments that it is gross mismanagement to have not resolved the 2008 red zone problems
by now.
The other thing that is bothering me is we went into the draft and took Barden & Beckum to give Eli red zone alternatives, instead of badly needed help at LB or Guard, and we're not using them !!
Neither was in for 1 dam red zone play. What the brown are we doing ?
Gillbrown is so one track minded, and TC must be agreeing, for this to continue. The run game is not working in the red zone. So for brown sakes, realize that, think out of the box and at least try a few new pass plays using the big targets of Boss & Barden.
The blame rests with both Gillbrown & TC. Did they forget the end of 2008 ??
Roy Williams: 1 rec 18 yards. Corey Webster anybody? 2 weeks, 2 receivers shut out!!!
This guy should be suspended, fined and thrown out of the league.
IRVING — The New York Giants are still in a lather over a tripping penalty against Dallas Cowboys Pro Bowl tackle Flozell Adams, which knocked defensive end Justin Tuck from the game.
Tuck, who suffered a shoulder injury, called it a "bush league" move by Adams.
"Bush? What does that mean. I've never ever heard that term," Adams said. "It’s not my fault. I don’t know what happened with that. He said he hurt his shoulder. I’m like, 'well, stay up.' That’s all I know. He fell down. Stay up."
Adams might be receiving another fine from the NFL by the end of the week. He was fined last week for grabbing the face of a Tampa Bay Buccaneers defender. Adams said he did nothing wrong and plans to appeal.
"They said I grabbed his face, and I didn’t even touch his face. I guess I’ll protest it and do it the way we have to do it. That’s all we can do."
http://www.wfan.com/topic/play_window.php?audioType=Episode&audioId=4035815
#58 talks about the game and perspective on the DL and RBs. Interestingly, he points out that the RBs were impatient and tried to cutback to quick instead of letting the play develop. The D was purley undisciplined in gap responsiblity a point we all communicated.
The red zone issues he adds that it his a mental issue and attitude as well. They need to believe that we cannot be denied. Perhaps this stems with their confidence in the call being played and the OC managing it?
"Perhaps this stems with their confidence in the call being played and the OC managing it?" was not Banks.
He gives kudos to Sheridan and company for preparing the 2ndary given the youth and injuries.
Thanks Mo, that was a nice listen
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