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Tuesday, March 3, 2009

Giants Draft Ideas, Safety, Ward

Wonder's draft ideas:

1) a LB or WR rates to fall to the Giants at #29.

2) Heyward-Bey is going to make an excellent WR in the NFL.

3) Philadelphia should take Heyward-Bey at #21.

4) If we reach 15-18-20 in the draft and Heyward-Bey is there, go up and get him to front the Eagles.

5) Draft is strong in OT and WR, two things Reese has not yet (likely, intentionally) addressed.

6) Andre Smith was great in college, will make a solid pro, his stock has fallen, do not mind why, he could fall to the Giants at #29, take him. (I think Wonder is wrong, 0.0 chance he falls THAT far, maybe I misheard him.)

7) Another player who may (more likely than others we are discussing here) make it down to #29 is WR Hakeem Nicks of North Carolina. Do not pay attention to his 6' 0 3/4" height, he is like a Chris Chambers, plays bigger than his size.

8) Anyone who takes Cushing or Matthews before Maualuga in the draft is out of their minds. All 3 USC LBers are good, Maualuga is the pick of the USC litter, no question. He is second only to Curry at LBer in the draft.

9) Reiterating, Curry and Crabtree are the nuts, they are the stars of an overall weaker draft.

10) There has been a stink about Crabtree's height and foot fracture. If he drops at all, it is an oppty to trade up and GRAB HIM.

Summary: Curry, Crabtree, Maualuga, Nicks, A Smith, Heyward-Bey are players to get excited about. At #29 realistically look at someone like Nicks if not prepared to trade up.

Btw, that didn't take long, Craig, here comes Reese going after Safety.

Ward to Bucs for 4 yrs, 17M. Glad Reese spent that money on Canty. Nothing against Ward, nice player... he was not the reason why we lost this past season. But if not employing Ward kept our cap space for Canty, then it was once again Jerry Reese making all the right decisions. Ward had to cash that $6M check- as a 28/29 year old RB, this is his final (meaningful, and ONLY) signing bonus.


Nature said...

i feel like we are in a draft the best available player type situation....best WR,LB,OT and not necessarily in that order

if Mualuga or Crabtree fall out of the top ten (i think #58 will) then i think it would be worth going up to get one of them. if we stay put and he is there Hakeem Nicks wouldnt be a bad pick either, he could be the best receiver in the draft

Andy F. said...

Wonder writes: "With T.J.H. going to Seattle, Crabtree MAY fall to Oakland at #7...if so, JINTS should be READY to pull off a blockbuster draft day trade...unless they're worried about his foot surgery...in which case, they wait for H-bey or Nicks...Harvin should be gone by then."

Separately, he grades Houston Texans Safety CC Brown as "average plus."

Bob said...


Pls explain the wisdom of letting Butler go and then bringing in someone like c.c Brown to play backup safety. I know Butler wasn't great, but is a known commodity and probably average. After all, we're looking for a backup. I assume Kenny Philips and M. Johnson are the starters for 2009.

What are we gaining here ? Or is Rice just playing chicken with the
free agents ? why is c. c. Brown
better than Butler ?

We did this with Sammy Knight and it was a waste of time. Are we going down that road again?

xtian said...

yep, we are in great situation to take best avail athlete w/ our #1: wr, lb, ot, te, or s (don't think any safeties are rated this high though).

i agree about having butler back over cc brown for the same money, but maybe that is not an option.

congrats to derrick ward!!! very happy for him. he is a young 28 too.

parcells approved of giants dt fa signings. note how all of the fa said they were excited to be on a winning team, in ny, in the giants organization, and will be working out at the facility day 1 in the off season.

i would certainly trade a #2 for braylon edwards.

Russ Wellen said...

Farewell, Derrick. You're a class act. You never griped about how under-appreciated you were by the New York media. Nor about The Bradshaw Cult, which, at least last year, didn't have much of a case considering how well you played.

I've been a connoisseur of running backs since I first started watching Jim Brown against Sam Huff. I got as much enjoyment out of you as any back.

Andy F. said...

lunch break special.

Bob- As I mentioned on the comments, Saturday noon:

"Re Safety, don't be shocked if teams shy away from Butler (fugly speed) and he comes back to us very cheap as insurance. The team upgrades without him, but at a low enough price he could be depth. He got burned in '08 less than '07, he knows the system. Reese is probably eyeing the Knights of the world in the third wave of free agents. Without sounding arrogant, if the Giants get Canty and an impact LBer in the draft, they could suit any of us up back there and get the job done, that is how good this defense could be.

February 28, 2009 12:10:00 PM EST"

so back to your question, it is really about the money. the devil you know vs the devil you don't. After 2007, I was strongly against Butler because his speed was a tremendous liability. In 2008, we all had to soften that stance because while he still got burned, he was not doing it as often (prob a combination of knowing the system better and getting better as a pro, NOT "getting faster!"). So now it is up to Reese to decide just how much he wants to pay for the devil he does not know. Butler has not yet landed anywhere (leaning towards Spags, altho he can't seem to get the money he wants).

Some of thinking is probably that the Giants have a good defensive system, that we can plug in a guy who has more speed than Butler (almost any pro safety in the NFL) and make him better than Butler after he picks up the system. The flaw in that thinking is twofold: (1) how long does it take to get comfortable (often takes 1-2 years) and (2) Butler was a reliable tackler.

I do not mind Butler as a sub or part of a rotation, esp after the 2008 season and esp if the price is reasonable. This way he is not the liability and cannot be picked on by any team trying to isolate him. Note how Spags, who knows him as well as anyone, is willing to have him, but only at a reasonable price where his cap is available for others who will make the difference.

One last thing to answer your question in macro... Safety is not a skill position. These guys are some of the lowest salaries in the league, right there with Guards. Look at the food chain: If you can run fast and catch the ball, you play WR. If you can run fast, you play CB. If you can run you play Safety. So they are almost all a dime a dozen. After Reed, Sanders (when healthy) and Polamalu, the rest of them are all the same. A commodity- guys that are not that fast and cannot catch the ball. So this is why Reese is willing to try to do better.

Craig said...

what kind of player is C.C. anyway? i have no clue, never heard of him but then again, not that many people in the Texan secondary i do know. The article said he's more of a run defender which is what i think this team needs at SS this year with the undersized LB.

I have no problem with Phillips and Johnson starting we just need a vet back there to play in rotation and help these guys develop bc they are inexperienced.

3rd or 4th round find somebody with some speed that can play safety, and in 2 years we should have the best young secondary in the league.

HAHA still nothing on Offense, i guess your plan of suffocating the Offense is working so far.

KP said...

I don't think I've ever been in such a great comfort zone knowing the future of our Gmen are in the capable hands of a sound GM who's willing to take risks(Plax) but also great decisions(Canty). Very exciting time to be a Giant fan!

Nature said...

people want NBUTLER back? why? i think the guy is more of a liability than anyone in the secondary. he is not just slow he is DIRT slow. on his best days as a GIANTS he was decent at best. he is not mush of a play-maker. he rarely made plays. i would rather bring back MYRON GUYTON out of his food joints (at his current age) than Butler.....let em go!!!

i thought the DARREN SHARPER idea was good, he would be a GREAT teacher for K.Philips to learn from
and dont give me that crap about SAMMY KNIGHT, he was never as good as Sharper. Philips and Johnson will do people keep yelling about not having vets, HELLO Johnson is a vet now, he has been in the league long enough. bring in SHARPER, draft a guy in the later rounds and call it a day

Motown Blue said...

Reese hints that trades could possibly happen before the draft:


When asked how he plans on making room for 10-11 draft picks they are eligible for Reese stated: "there are a lot of things that can happen before the draft, so who knows? We may not have that many picks by the time the draft rolls around. We’ll do what’s best for the Giants".

So all you Bolding lovers or have a preference for Braylon Edwards maybe this is your sign?? I hope he holds on to both 2nd round picks to have the option to move up for Maualuga or Heyward-Bay.

I just can't see how they can expect to draft 10 rookies based on the depth of their current roster. So expect some movements before and/or the day of the draft.

Mitch said...

I agree with Nature. Butler is slow and g-d forbid a ball comes his way, he couldn't catch a cold.

The combo of Johnson (3rd year) and Phillips (2nd year) are fine. Experience can be overrated. Talent prevails...and I believe these two will be a force, especially with our D-Line creating pressure.

Craig said...

I have no problem with Phillips and Johnson starting, but tell me you all wouldnt just cream yourself if darren sharper was back there with a 2 year $7 - 8 million contract

Andy F. said...

Darren Sharper has veteran savvy but he is not worth that much. He is simply too old (33). And he'll be sharing the snaps. Yes, I would like to have a guy like that, another Madison/McQuarters type who will be a smart centerfield guy who can probably make Phillips (and yes, Eli) into a better player. At this point, all we need is 'value' back there and the job will get done.

xtian said...

if the giants don't sign a fa safety they need to draft two. i like the starters, but there is little behind them.

PD2LISN said...

Don't know if anybody read Paul Schwartz's article in The Post today. At the end of the article he discusses some of Reese's comments and offers up interpretations. Most notably, when discussing the Giants' 9 draft picks, Reese states,"We may not have that many picks by the time the draft rolls around." Interpretation: WIDE RECEIVER.

Mitch said...


Little behind them is putting it mildly...

The only other safety on the roster right now is:
Steve Cargile Age 26
6-2 / 215 lbs from Columbia...not exactly a school that funnels many to the NFL.

Craig said...

Craig Dahl is on the roster too i think, but there arent to many white guys that play in the secondary.

PD2LISN, why wide receiver? why not linebacker?

this isnt a very good secondary draft class but there is always a great find somewhere, and im sure reese will find someone

Russ Wellen said...

Andy wrote:
Safety is not a skill position. ... A commodity -- guys that are not that fast and cannot catch the ball.

That's one reason I read UltimateNYG: Where else do you hear stuff like that?

But do you mean safety as it's played today? Maybe I'm wrong, but I always thought safeties -- at least free safeties -- were (or were supposed to be) the savviest guys on the team after the quarterback, with football instincts at least as keen. All of which, to a certain extent, made up for lack of size and speed.

Motown Blue said...

The safety issue is a non-concern and we need to think bigger picture in MLB, WR and Left OT. I agree with Andy with this DL makeup I think even I could line up at Safety with no downside effect. Reese will find a bargain safety (probably C.C. at the rate it's going with him still on site) and get a safety in the draft out of nowhere like Appaloosa state or the like.

Let's look at getting an MLB as AP has seen his better days. Now is the time to develop one, now that we have the DL in place.

For those who want to feed the Gilbrown WR fodder please see attachment:


xtian said...

expect reese to trade a few draft picks as most would not make the team and therefore be wasted. this means either for a vet, or to trade up for quality over quantity or to trade for future draft picks.

Anonymous said...

I don't think it is any one position on defense any more. It comes down to whomever is just good at it. Gary Reasons was great at calling the play out before it happened. Pierce is the guy on the team now.

Craig said...

CC is officially a giant

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