New York Giants draft: where is the competition ABSENT?

This morning Paul Schwartz of the Post writes about how Sinorice Moss, Jared Lorenzen and James Butler are going to feel some heat this summer from draft picks made this past weekend (Manningham, Woodson and Phillips respectively). Reese is always preaching competition in camp to make players better and make the team better.

Why do I continue to complain and ask for a LT? Because Diehl gave up the second most sacks in the league last year.

The Giants did not draft ANY Offensive Linemen. None. Add that no (veteran) free agents were signed either (the Giants only signed two), and essentially there is no competition here. The Giants will talk about how Guy Whimper will be in the mix, but how many of you think that is going to shake any trees? How many of you have the Super Bowl on tape, DVR or Tivo? Do yourself a favor and watch the game again. Watch the second quarter when Manning gets sacked and fumbles the ball. Watch the last drive. It is scary. Diehl is going to get Manning killed.

Reese says that Diehl is improving all the time. I agree. Diehl has improved. But not enough to play one of the most elite positions on the field, LT. Yes, Diehl did play LT well enough for us to win the Super Bowl. But you can bet your bottom dollar that the tapes of the Super Bowl Champion are being dissected right now and the competition sees a huge opening. You can make a Tackle into a Guard but you cannot make a Guard into a Tackle. Reese is betting that Diehl will improve some more during training camp. Granted, this will be his second camp at LT and he will be able to get incrementally a little more efficient. But David Diehl is the weakest link on this offense and his weakness in pass protection is a major liability.

New York Giants take their chances in the NFL draft

For the past two weeks Wonder has been preaching value to us. It is not who you pick but where you pick them.

"These people (GM's) do not understand the draft," says Wonder. "You must pick players you like when appropriate, not just because you like them. Not picking for value is easily the most common draft mistake."

Well, Wonder approved of the pick of Mario Manningham. Not because of the player, but WHERE the Giants were able to land him. Manningham's former coach Lloyd Carr is never going to trash his player publicly, but he does support the idea that the Giants may have something here at the end of the third round.

The general philosophy of Ultimatenyg is play to win championships, not to beat some team during the season or just make the playoffs. In order to do that you are going to have to take chances. Take calculated risks. They may or may not work out. But at least put yourself in a position to enable something good to POSSIBLY happen. The Manningham pick is a perfect example of intelligent rolling of the dice. He may crap out. He may be a star. That is worth the risk at #95, the end of the third round. The fact that the Giants said they did their "homework" (due diligence) on him? All the better. The Seven P's: Prior Proper Preparation Prevents Piss Poor Performance. So the Giants checked him out, kicked the tires, and will give it a spin. If this is a bust, what have they lost? If they had brought in the same player with a much higher pick, the risks would have been far greater. The Giants did not allocate a huge amount of their draft on him, so the risk is certainly in line with the potential reward. Ronnie Barnes, the trainer for the Giants, says Terrell Thomas is in good health, but I think there might be more risk in that selection, given THREE previous injuries. Time will tell on all of these picks. Rookie minicamp is this week.

Free Agent signings for the New York Giants, Sean Payton on Shockey

Wallace Gilberry DE Alabama signs UFA contract with Giants

Vacchiano has a good list of signings...
"the Giants’ 2008 undrafted rookie class (so far):"

S Nehemiah Warrick, Michigan State
DE Wallace Gilberry, Alabama
OL Glenn Bujnoch, Cincinnati
DE Antonio Reynolds, Tennessee
OL Andrew Bain, Miami
OL Carnell Stewart, LSU
OL Dylan Thiry, Northwestern
DT Nate Robinson, Akron
WR D.J. Hall, Alabama

Sean Payton QA:
Q: Are you still pursuing Jeremy Shockey or is that dead?
A: I've read so much about that topic. No. 1, it's a player on another team that we would never be able to comment on. Obviously there's a history with myself being with the Giants organization and I was there when we selected Jeremy, but that wouldn't be something that I could comment on, just because I think it's inappropriate and there's been a lot written about it and half that stuff that was written probably was false. I don't know where it came from. Mickey and I talked about this and really in all fairness to our team and league protocol, I just don't think it is appropriate for us to even visit about it.

Wide Receiver and the NFL Draft

This past decade has belonged to the Wide Receiver. Players like Randy Moss and TO were big. The Draft sucked in more WRs into Round 1 during this decade to meet the demand of the easier pass catching rules of the NFL. So there was WR inflation all around.

The 2008 draft brought that trend to a screeching halt. Could it be the new "force-out" rule is going to stop the pass-happy NFL? Or could it just be that evidence proves that "the NFL's 32 teams finally seemed to learn a lesson long known to those who have (been paying attention): first-round wide receivers fail more than players at any other position, including quarterback."

Ultimatenyg has been arguing to anyone that would listen that you do not build a champion with WR #1 draft choices. These players are available in free agency (Moss, TO and Burress) and integrate quickly into your offense (unlike linemen, that require a few years of chemistry before getting efficient in execution). Even less heralded WRs like former Giants David Patten and Joe Jurevicius went to other teams and won rings.

Taking a WR like Devin Thomas was interesting because at #31 he was virtually a second round choice, home of players like Toomer and Smith. His consensus and internal value here merited attention. Manningham may indeed end up being an even better pick than Thomas because it allowed the Giants to focus on defense early and still get a good risk/reward from a late third rounder. VALUE VALUE VALUE.

The trend in WR has not 'ended.' There were still 9 WRs taken in Round 2. But this is a start. 8 Offensive linemen went in R1. R-E-S-P-E-C-T. Linemen win the game- just ask Randy Moss.

New York Giants 2008 NFL Draft Recap and Analysis

In tomorrow's papers we will get all of the wonderful spin on why every one of the Giants' picks were simply outstanding. Until Reese lays an egg, I will be following him like Svengali. He is 1 for 1, or rather 1 for 2007, so he certainly deserves a little latitude in his choices.

With that said, Wonder the Ultimatenyg draft guru likes picks 2, 3, and 4, but is uninspired with the rest. The Kenny Phillips pick has upside but we would have preferred Tyrell Johnson as a different Safety, or WR Devin Thomas or LB Quentin Groves. All three were taken in the second round, with the Redskins notably taking Thomas 3 picks later at #34. For the gmen Terrell Thomas and Mario Manningham are solid picks, and Wonder is particularly upbeat on Kehl for 4th round value, fully endorsing the move up to take him.

FYI the Giants had to give up a #194 to the Steelers to trade and move up from the #130 to #123 slot to pick Kehl.

There must have been some kind of major (medical, personal) problems with Josh Barrett for him to drop so badly that all 32 teams would avoid him like the plague. Denver finally took him with the 220th pick in the seventh round.

24 years and counting that the Giants have not drafted a LB in the first round.

Not that it means anything, but Wonder did not hear of the #199 pick (Henderson).

Wonder is giving his best grade for the draft to the KC Chiefs... all seven of their first seven picks make the team, says the draft guru. He is in seclusion for the time being, totally disgusted with the Jets second day after having gotten off to a very good start on Day 1.

Giants missed the boat on Barrett, picked Jonathan Goff

Wonder: "Goff is a good solid inside plugging LB but he belongs in a 3-4, not the Giants 4-3. To have a chance at Barrett at that spot and pass him up is terrible, mindless."

Separately Wonder is in mourning for not getting QB Josh Johnson (taken two spots ahead of the Jets). Re QB Ainge, "just what we need, another weak-armed QB."

Josh Johnson was another good pickup, but...

4 teams remaining between us and a shot at Barrett. (Of course right now Wonder is speaking with Mangenius about taking him for the Jets, who pick 3 ahead of us! LOL)

And now only two ahead of us. Jets took a QB. Too bad for your Jets, Wonder.

F!! Kellen Davis just went right after the post below, Barrett still left

Wonder's Random Day 2 comments on the NFL Draft

1) He likes the Mario Manningham pick at the end of the third round, good value. He thinks his teammate Arrington might be even better. Manningham is slower than expected, but has potential on upside to be a very good player. "Good Pick, I would have preferred Oniel Cousins but you cannot quarrel with taking Manningham there."

2) "The Giants should grab TE Kellen Davis in the 5th round (assuming he is still there) and then they can unload Shockey. Kellen Davis would be a great pick."

3) Kehl was a "Wonder-approved" move. That was "good value going up 7 picks to get him. He plays smart, pretty fast at that stage of the draft, played 4 years--- that is A LOT OF EXPERIENCE."

4) JOSH BARRETT IS STILL ON THE BOARD. This pick can make your entire draft with this value.

5) Detroit did great gtg Avril.

6) Eagles pick of Jack Ikeqwuono was a great pick at end of 4th Round. Tremendous upside. Could have been a first rounder or early second rounder but had medical issue, if that heals well it could have GREAT upside. Very smart risk at that (compensatory, end of 4th round) slot.

7) "KC did really well AGAIN today. Jamaal Charles, Brad Cottam (he's a horse and can block), steal end of Round 3 DaJuan Morgan, Will Franklin (big and fast)... ALL 7 of their (first 7) picks will make the team. This is going to be one of the best drafts by a single team I have seen in years."

8) Dolphins did great gtg Kendall Langford. Tremendous pick.

Giants trade up from #130 for Steelers #123 pick near end of R4 and pick LB Brian Kehl

OLB 6'2" 242 lbs. BYU ...from NFL.com:

Brian is a natural playmaker who showed marked improvement during his senior year. An intense offseason workout program saw him shed more than 15 pounds of bulk, helping increase his stamina and quickness on the field. With his instincts and athleticism, scouts feel he could be a nice fit as a weak-side linebacker. With his field vision and quick reactionary skills, some teams are also looking at beefing him back up for a possible move to middle linebacker.

"Kehl is just a flat-out player. He is one of those guys who is always around the football and is a ball hog and makes a lot of plays," BYU coach Bronco Mendenhall said. "I have talked to some people out there and they tell me one thing about this guy, he is not only an athlete but he has got a mind that is absolutely unreal and football is important to him."

Kehl earned Salt Lake Tribune first-team All-State honors as a senior at Brighton High School. He added academic recognition with a 4.0 grade-point average that gained him a spot on the Academic All-State team.

Marvelous comments on Mario Manningham

In Round 2, the USA Today special 2008 Draft magazine had Manningham going to Denver: "could be a steal for the Broncos at #42 and could thrive (alongside their other WRs)."

Marvelous has seen Manningham AT LEAST TWENTY times. He was always doubled on big downs and always got the ball. Invariably successful. Anything near his hands was getting caught, tremendous in the clutch. In Marvelous' opinion he does NOT run good routes, or can certainly improve on his routes. Reminds Marvelous of Toomer in his days at Michigan, same type of player, same school too. HE DOES NOT DROP THE BALL. Marvelous does not recall Manningham EVER dropping a ball. GREAT HANDS. When he gets his hands on a ball he catches it. Fearless, does not mind going over the middle. Marvelous likes the player, does not like the position because of other needs ("LB"). The Giants must have feared losing him at this spot because he will be gone in R4.

Dr. Rob says the NFL Network showed some clips, a couple of passes where he dropped the ball, and one where he got leveled coming across the middle. When he got free had plenty of speed.

Reese: "talent-wise we think he could have gone in the first row (round)"

Giants take WR Mario Manningham with round 3 pick

almost on the clock for Round 3 for the New York Giants

This was Wonder's assessment for Day 2 made on Friday BEFORE the draft began:

6) PICKS ON DAY 2. Wonder offers the following Day 2 names as players representing value in later rounds: Carl Nicks, Chris Johnson, Jamaal Charles, Jordy Nelson, Curtis Lofton, Cliff Avril, Jeremy Thompson, Kellen Davis, Mike Pollak, Chilo Rachal..one may be available in 3rd round if LUCKY...but..you also have Patrick Lee, Marcus Howard, Justin King (steal !!)...after that you have guys like Tyvon Branch, Donnie Avery, Brad Cottam, Eddie Royal, Jeremy Zuttah, Craig Stevens, Tom Zbikowski, Terrell Thomas...Mike McGlynn...ALL would have great value anytime after round 3...total speculation as what to expect, and who will fall in 5-7....have to wait until AFTER the first day is over to have any clue...

let's go through them to see who is still there:
Tier #1 (Great Value in Round3): Carl Nicks, Jeremy Thompson, Kellen Davis (whichif taken puts talk about Shockey trade back on table), Marcus Howard, Justin King
Tier #2 (Great Value after Round3):Tyvon Branch, Craig Stevens, Mike McGlynn

Note that Wonder had Terrell Thomas as one of his preferred players for Day 2, so that the Gmen got him at the last pick of R2 is still pretty good, not a reach, not value, but nonetheless a solid pick.

SIzzle and Steak: Round 2 of the NFL Draft and the importance of the later rounds

Have you been noticing how the Eagles are trading more and more down into the second round? This is the football version of "Moneyball," where value is seen more reliably in those less heralded second rounders THAT GET THE JOB DONE. In the Super Bowl for the Giants, when you sort the team's reprentation of starters from the round where they came from, you would logically think that the first rounders outnumber the second rounders. But they do not. 3 first rounders, 7 second rounders. And the linked blog entry shows that over the previous administrations stretching all the way to 1979, the one constant is that the Giants do better in the second round, period end of story. Sizzle vs steak. Sizzle sells newspapers and draft coverage, steak sells championships. Add that Alford, DeOssie, Boss, Johnson, Bradshaw all came from (what is now) Day 2.

In reading up on the stories coming from the Giants "War Room," I am continually struck by the pressure and emotion of the Round 1 pick vs the stories that come from the Round 2 and later rounds. There is always some 'worry' and stress about the big ticket not being there. Reese and Coughlin were allegedly holding their breath as they waited for each pick in front of them NOT to take Phillips. Yet I think this is why the Giants do not do as well in Round 1 as they do in Round 2. Objectivity is lost. They covet. They start getting married to the idea of which player they want and they get emotionally attached. That is much less so for later rounds where they have so many people ranked and have no clue who is going to be snapped up before they pick. So they play it by ear and are far more balanced. They are more value-oriented. And I have to think about Wonder's positive bias for Terrell Thomas over Kenny Phillips, ALL OTHER THINGS BEING EQUAL. Seven, count them, SEVEN former second rounders started for the Giants in the Super Bowl.

Giants draft Phillips and Thomas- Sunday Morning QB

1) If you did not catch it, reread Wonder's comment #3 from Saturday morning about where the league was going with corners. It fits TOTALLY with why the Giants went after Thomas at the end of Round 2. Big strong physical corners who can play bump and run.

2) My sense is that the Giants went corner and safety in the first two rounds because of need AND the fact that the new 'force out' rule is going to help defensive backs vs WRs. Having strong physical guys who can push WRs at the line AND muscle them out of bounds may have a new 'urgency' with the new rules.

3) I am already reading this morning how Phillips is from a long line of blue blood Safeties from Miami. As if that matters one single iota. If Phillips can 'come to play' EVERY game then he will be a good pick and if he disappears from game to game (like he did in college) then he is not going to be a good pick.

4) My standard for a first round draft choice is (with exception of interior defensive line and QB), (A) CAN YOU START FOR ME IN GAME ONE OF YOUR PRO CAREER? (B) CAN YOU BE AN IMPACT PLAYER? What impressed me about Tyrell Johnson was that Wonder said unequivocally that Johnson starts his first game as a pro. He could not say the same thing about Phillips. MAYBE Phillips can. MAYBE he is as good as Johnson. The pick is made, I hope Wonder is wrong, but the odds favor Wonder. Let's hope both Johnson and Phillips are good pros and it is the "push" where either is a good pick.

5) Well, the Shockey saga is not completely over, but apparently the Giants demanded much more than anyone (Saints) was willing to pay. Smart move. Vacchiano LAST NIGHT: "Now it’s going to be very interesting to see what happens next. Shockey has made it very clear he’s not happy in New York." Vacchiano has not backed off- he has someone telling him that Shockey is not happy, and like a pebble in your shoe, that the pebble has to be removed. Ever think that maybe Shockey is the shoe and the questions are the pebble? Enough already. NEXT.

6) In all of the focus on the draft, I missed this little nugget that says Osi is not going to hold out and will be in camp on time. Good for Osi, good for the gmen. The only people that win with holdouts are the other 31 teams.