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Thursday, November 6, 2008

The Giants, the Eagles and the secondary

1) Hall was cut. Everyone with half a brain will wait for him to clear waivers and become a free agent before talking to him. After that it could get a little interesting. If the Giants could do an Arrington-type of contract which is heavy on the incentives and light on the commitment, it would make sense. Remember that (a) with nickel and dime packages on the field so often, you can never have enough good corners (b) Dockery (nickel) and Butler (S) got hurt this past weekend.

Just got off the phone with Wonder, and he is outspoken as ever...

2) Wonder: Cowboys or Pats will end up with Hall. Giants should go for him. They need A LOT of help at Secondary. "THE GIANTS SECONDARY S***S." We saw from Cleveland that when the pass rush is not there, the Giants secondary gets abused by any reasonable QB. Aaron Ross is woeful. (I got Wonder to concede that..) Webster is playing ok. I think that Hall will end up in New England.

3) Wonder on the Giants: Because the Giants secondary is bad, the way to beat their defense is you have to max protect and give a few of your options the oppty to challenge them. You must negate that Giants DL in order to have a chance. Run flares, screens, play action. Despite this weakness in their secondary, the Giants are still the most well-balanced team and they will be favored in a Tenn-Giants Super Bowl because even if the good Tenn OL thwarted the pass rush, they don't have the passing options (only Mason) to hurt the Giants. The Eagles (on the other hand) have Curtis back, DeSean Jackson and Westbrook out of the backfield, that is a problem for the Giants. This is why the Eagles are my #2 NFC team next to the Giants. Even if the Eagles lose to the Giants they are definitely making the playoffs. McNabb is playing well, you better rush him, hit him and disrupt him or else he is going to do well Sun night. (The Skins would be nowhere except for the weak second half schedule they have.)

4) The Eagles know the gmen well. They will run blitz, they will pass blitz, they will force Eli to beat them. Eli will have receivers singled up and will have to find them. If the Eagles have 8 men in the box it will be up to the Giants to throw first and run second. This is NOT the Bengals where you can run against 8 men in the box, wake up with 5 mins left and charge down the field to get a score for a win.

5) What works really well against run blitz and pass blitz? SCREEN PASS TO WARD AND BRADSHAW. It won't be Bradshaw because Gilbride has him buried in the depth chart, but Ward has improved a lot in his pass catching (still not as good or as fast as #44) to be a threat.

6) Tyree was put on season-ending IR.


xtian said...

omg, the sky is falling, the sky is falling! you guys are ridiculous. the giants secondary does not suck, but it is young and talented with ross, johnson, phillips, and thomas with the old guys being dockery and butler and therefore going to make more mistakes. (the really old guys knight, madison, and mcquarters only play because of injuries.) part of pass coverage is also the lbs who are better against the run than pass--although kehl might eventually be good in pass coverage. the future looks bright for the giants in pass coverage with the rookies and 2nd year players.

Nature said...

yeah gotta disagree with WONDER on the Ross being woeful, and he has less than 2 season under his belt give em some wiggle room 2 bad games in a row and he sucks? if the EAGLES lose they still make the playoffs? i like the EAGLES talent but forget about it, they still rely on #36 too damn much its not a good formula, and lately we have been giving them toooooo many injury excuses, as a matter of fact im tired of teams b!tching about who is not there G-men have lost starters, and key back-ups the last 2 years and we got BETTER, the EAGLES look stagnant too me

when we lost to CLEVELAND i remember SHAUN KING and a couple NFL LIVE guys say we wouldnt make the playoffs (say it in Jim Mora's voice) PLAYOFFS!! not the league needs to pay attention the the possible DYNASTY J. Reese building

Craig said...

Ok so Ross got burned by Edwards. But he did a pretty good job against Santana Moss Week 1, Kept Holt to 76 yards week 2, Ocho Cinco week 3, whoever Seattle had week 5, Hines ward was no where week 8, TO week 9 didnt see him to much.

The secondary is young, athletic, and much improved since years past,(will allen, will peterson). One of these guys will be in the Probowl next few years. Its not a great secondary, but its not half bad.

Cody said...

Don't bury Ross yet. CB is a tough position to play and I think he'll be fine. Thankfully Webster picked a nice time to develop!

I agree on all of this Gilbride talk. People that know and understand the coaching aptitudes significantly better than I don't seem to hold Kevin Gilbride in high regard (vs. a guy like Spags).

Andy F. said...

lunchtime special. below is a copy of a comment I made a few days before Wonder shared his thoughts.

Know where Wonder is coming from, he loves the Giants DL and sees the Giants in the Super Bowl at this moment in time. He simply is warning us that there is a vulnerability-max protect and go after the secondary.

My thoughts are somewhere in BETWEEN your ideas and Wonder's.

This was in response to one poster getting excited about our secondary a few days ago...

I hope you are right about the secondary, but at this moment I have to respectfully disagree. Two games ago, we got lucky because the Steelers were without Santonio Holmes and our pass rush was in full gear (w/o which, our secondary is much more ordinary). Against Dallas they had one QB which was worse than the next, making our secondary look a lot better. Do not misunderstand my msg- the secondary is ok, but it has not made the progress I was hoping for by this point in the season. Our defensive line is excellent and everything flows from them. The past two games they had 9 sacks and helped to bottle up the run... as they go, so goes the defense. I will agree with you on one important point- at least they are making turnovers, so you can't fault them there.

November 4, 2008 8:37:00 PM EST

xtian said...

oops i forgot to mention webster earlier as one of the young-old guys. my bad!

we do have a lot of youth in the secondary and they are mistake prone, but that does not mean they are bad. just because ross got burned a couple of times does not mean he sucks. look at the entire game. and sometimes good players make good plays with good coverage.

part of the sack equation is good coverage. how about that aspect, especially with rothlisberger who holds onto the ball too long, but is considered one of the best qbs.

the entire season will even out and show where the secondary is. just remember how young they are and be realistic in expectations. the overall league completes approx 60% of the passes.

i agree with nature, the eagles depend on westbrook too much and are average w/o him. a little injury and bye-bye season. the odds are not with them.

Mitch said...

I disagree with Wonder as well about Ross. He is still developing. I remember last year Coughlin benched Webster and now we have people saying he could develop into a shut-down corner. I don't know if Ross has that kind of ability yet, but it is way too early in his career to be slamming him.

Justin said...

@ craig:

Webster was on Owens as much as Ross, it seemed to me (not to mention his pick). Didn't see #23 mentioned much around this discussion.

Andy F. said...

Webster is fine. He got beat on the slant-in for a TD by Owens, but that was no knock on him, very hard to cover him, the safety was up in the box and he was singled. He quietly gets his job done WELL.

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