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Thursday, August 6, 2009

Eli Moneybags

1) Eli Manning is set to get a 6 yr deal worth ~$97M. That's a lot of hospital birthing centers. Reese: "He's a good football player." But therein lies the rub. We have been saying all along, he's a GOOD player. Not great, good. Those were Reese's words, carefully chosen- "good." Someone please explain to us why "good" gets you the highest salary in the NFL. Eli is deserving of a lot, but there are ~1700 players in this league and Eli Manning does NOT deserve the #1 salary in the league.

2) Someone please order me a pizza. But is it possible to get one for less than $90? Like we said before, for this kind of money, buy your ticket without the frills and get over to Il Mulino after the game. The food is slightly better. I'm not that sure what a good restaurant is in Dallas, but it is not going to be as costly as a $90 pizza. But then again, it all makes sense. You better be selling a lot of $90 pizzas to pay for the Romos and Mannings of the world.


Mitch said...


Of course you're right but this is all about timing and "the who gets the next big contract syndrome" He had to surpass cornerback Nnamdi Asomugha who was the top dog 3 months ago when he signed his contract.

Look, the Giants are hamstrung here. What should they do? Let Eli become a free agent and then start over and try to find a franchise QB. That would set the franchise back and they are "built to win now."

This is life in the NFL. I don't agree, but the Giants had to do this.

Just think about this...Do you think Ben Roethisberger says...I have 2 rings maybe I should renegotiate my deal?

Norm said...

Exactly right, Mitch.

I have no wish to revisit the ongoing "Is Eli elite?" debate. All I'll say is "Super Bowl ring and MVP by age 27" and leave it at that. If ya think you can easily scare up a few more of those down at the local hiring hall, fair play to ya. If not, than ya gotta tip your hat to Eli and say "Dude deserved the contract he got."

But, regardless of where you stand on the "Eli question," can we please just stop with all this "OMG - ELI'S THE HIGHEST PAID PLAYER IN THE NFL" hyperventilation? As anyone who's observed this league for more than five minutes realizes, NFL contract numbers are a joke. That $97 MM figure might as well be written on soggy toilet paper. The only numbers that matter - as any savvy fan knows - is the six years, $35 million GUARANTEED. That's actually a pretty sweet deal for an under 30 QB with a Super Bowl win and MVP on his resume. Eli and his agent probably could have asked for - and gotten - a much higher guaranteed dollar figure than that knowing full well that the Giants didn't exactly have a Plan B waiting in the wings.

Finally, I haven't seen a breakdown of all the details but my understanding is that the deal is heavily laden with incentives. If that's the case, then ths deal is a really a GREAT one for the Giants and their fans. Best case scenario: Eli achieves many of the goals specified in the incentive clauses, the Giants win another Supe or three and Eli ends up pocketing most of that 97 mil. Worst case? Eli flounders for another three-four years, earns none of the incentives at which point the Giants give him the balance of his $35 MM guarnteed and hand the reins over to Bomar who should be well seasoned and ready to step in by then.

In short, this looks to be a very smart deal by Reese - especially in a situation in which he had zero leverage. That the Peter Kings and John Claytons scoff at this signing is hardly a surprise. They rarely do little more than parrot the prevailing wisdon anyway. But that an astute observer of the Giants like Andy F. fails to see the brilliance of this move is surprising and more than a little disappointing.

Russ Wellen said...

Gary Myers is playing "rate the quarterbacks" at the Daily News. His choices in order: Brady, P. Manning, Roethlisberger, Brees, Eli.

Not bad. But what bothered me is when he wrote that Eli is "a lot closer to the next level of Donovan McNabb, Philip Rivers, Kurt Warner and Matt Ryan than he is to Brady and his brother."

This is all mixed up. Rivers may be better than Eli, just lacks a ring. McNabb is in neither of their leagues, as is evident by the way he choked in the playoffs last year. Too early to rate Ryan that high. Admittedly, Brees confuses me. As for Warner, see the list of a fan (me) below. (Controversial I know: Feel free to let me have it.)

1. Brady, 2. Warner, 3. P. Manning, and in one group, Eli, Rivers, and Roethlisberger.

How does UltimateNYG's other readers rate them?

Johnny99 said...

I have been checking in with your site for about a year, and you seem to be obsessed with one theme, the cost of everything from seat licenses, to player contracts, to the cost of pizza.

Dude, get over the money thing and stick to what happens between the hashmarks for the Jints. You are getting to be a bore.

Motown Blue said...

All about the rings:

1) Brady 2) Roethlisberger 3) Peyton 4) Eli 5) Warner

Everyone will argue it's because of the team that their on and system. Brady knows how to win, Roethlisberger showed it last year, Peyton shows it and Eli throughout the 08' playoff run show it. It's not the stats and athleticism that wins games. It's knowing how to win, leadership and timing of your decisions.

Bottom line he is overpaid but so are most 'elite' and high profiled athletes. Like what Norm said I won't pass too much judgement until the details are out.

Bob said...

If the deal is loaded with incentives and Eli MUST perform at a high level to get the $97M, then its a smart deal by the NYG.

I keep hearing that Eli has a superbowl ring, yada, yada, yada in
support of big bucks for Eli. Some
of you have short memories. The real heroes of our last SB were the D,especially the D line.

In reality, Eli is an above average
QB who has one very good playoff/SB
performance and one TERRIBLE one.
Did you forget last year ? I really
don't see how any team in their right mind would pay him 97M with
a high percentage guaranteed.

I don't agree that the NYG were
hamstrung here. Who would pay close
to 97M guaranteed for a QB as
inconsistent as Eli ? I doubt it.

Mitch said...


You are missing the point. Many NFL contracts never pay out what the projections are. Eli's is 35 mil guaranteed. But the bottom line is HE DELIVERED WHEN IT COUNTED! HE IS A SUPER BOWL MVP WINNING QB. If he never does anything else in this league...he will still be revered for what he has accomplished.

Is he Peyton? NO....Is he Brady? Of course not...but it just doesn't matter.

But YES they are hamstrung here. They cannot allow Eli to walk next year. Franchise QB's do not fall from the waiver wire.

I have too bad many memories of Dave Brown, Danny Kanell, & Kent Graham that last a lifetime..thank you very much.

Bob said...

Sorry Mitch

Eli wasn't the major factor why
we won the SB. the D was. He was our QB & threw the winning TD.
Good job Eli.

He also failed poorly in last year's playoff game, and was a major factor in why we lost.
Bad job Eli.

Who is the real Eli ? Reality is he's a very inconsistent above average QB, and nothing to get very excited about. He needed the 6'5" Burress & 6'3" Toomer to catch his many errant passes.
He's a franchise QB in name, NOT

He was the SB QB 2 years ago. What
does that count in the NFL ?

At the end of last season, when he
was ice cold, I think we would
have been better off benching him
like Reed did with Mc Nabb. We
wouldn't have done much worse.

Read what I said. Its a good deal
for the NYG if the contract is full
of incentives & he must perform at
a high level to get the 97M. If
it's not structured that way, its
not a good deal.

I have faith in Reese and am sure
he did the right thing for the NYG.

I still think it would be unwise to
give him an excessively generous
contract. Do you really think
another NFL team would come out
next year and pay him 97M
guaranteed ?


Mitch said...


You are still missing the point. Everything you said about Eli is correct. I cannot dispute one thing you said. We agree more than you realize.

Eli got about as hot as you can get for a period of 5 weeks. Yes the D-Line carried them. If you followed this blog back then you can check all my comments supporting that.

I NEVER said Eli was the major factor as you stated.

What I did say is that Eli delivered when needed. And I said this is the NFL and that is the way the economics of it work. (This is the business we've chosen)

He was next in line to get the big contract. That's it. Did I agree? No. It is just the reality of the situation.

xtian said...

eli is inconsistent, but also cool under pressure, and boy do you need that in ny!

during the super bowl 07 run he made lots of big plays for us to win. remember dallas's offense dominating our defense--umm mainly the heralded dl--with those 2 10-min grind it/smash mouth drives. only to have eli move the gmen all the way down the field in like 48 secs just before half time for a td. huge, absolutely huge. only when their lt got hurt did the dl start putting pressure on romo. and 2 comeback tds in the 4th quarter against the 18-0 greatest team ever. serious moxie. and you know what, he will probably do it again.

4 playoffs: 2 good, 2 bad--05 carolina: bad; 06 philly: good; 07 4 teams: good; 08 philly: bad. there's the inconsistency. guess what? a good one is coming.

he will win another super bowl with reese filling the roster and probably coughlin coaching.

i'll take it.

oh yeah, and any qb in ny deserves a couple mill/yr extra just for putting up with all the crazy shit from the media and the fans. ha! :p

Norm said...


I think it's a gross oversimplification (not to mention a disservice to Eli's contribution) to flatly state that "The defense won that Super Bowl."

Yes, it was the "D" kept the Giants in the game over the first three quarters with its relentless pressure on Brady.

But recall that it was also that same "D" that allowed the Patriots to march down the field for a TD after the Giants had grabbed a 10-7 lead. At that point - trailing by four with 2 and a half minutes left in the game - the onus was on Eli to lead the Giants to answer with nothing less than a TD of their own.

We all know how that turned out. Maybe you didn't find his game winning drive to be all that impressive. But to marginalize Eli's contributions to the Giant's victory in that title game is simply not supported by the facts.

Russ Wellen said...

Note to Johnny99: Nobody talks about contracts more than Peter King. Do you find him boring?

Sports is a microcosm for the business world at large. Following contracts, and team and league finances, is like a fun way to learn about the economy.

Keep up the money talk, Andy.

Andy F. said...

johnny99- thanks for coming over here. Keep commenting. I admit that there is a little more $ talk than is (personally) preferred. The last comment was kept short and pls remember that many have only come back here for the first time in many months, as hits are up a lot since camp began. If that punishes some of the regulars who have to hear some of this regurgitated stuff, that is a reminder to me to try to be briefer when I recycle. Keep up the criticism, I'm a big boy, I can take it and in this case I need to hear that from you to keep the site strong.

Norm/Mitch- We all knew this day was coming, as this story is basically a confirmation of what we saw last month. Reese really did not have much choice in the matter. He could not 'not sign him.' I just think there is a disconnect somewhere when a good player gets great money. I wish I had the answer. As the smart commentary refers to here, if the contract is heavily incentive-laden, that is the answer, but I do not believe the contract has a lot of that. So this is why I specifically asked for comments, knowing that there was plenty of gray.

I mentioned in the prev post in July about the job of the GM, how it was good we had the 'other' Jerry in the NFC East managing our affairs. If you pay every good player on the Giants 'great' money, you have a PROBLEM. Right now the Giants are paying a great player good money... Justin Tuck. Only Osi's injury squelched his contract renegotiations. The bottomline here is that this site is about NYG Giant championships. And the doling out of resources can derail a championship effort. Look at today's post (Sat Aug 8) and you will see why we can get away w overpaying Manning. Reese gets away with it by paying guys like Boss, Bradshaw, Smith, etc a cheaper cap hit. Only recently has he had to renew contracts for guys like Snee, Diehl and O'Hara. Bottomline is that the money has to come from somewhere. As long as the Giants don't make a habit of paying good players great money and average players good money, they'll be fine. Dropping Ward is one way this gets done. But did the dropping of Kawika Mitchell hurt the Giants last year because of Reese's cap pressure not allowing for the payment of those services? You have to examine that one to fully appreciate the cap issue. It becomes less clear cut to pay Manning the kind of money he got when thinking about the future Kawika Mitchells.

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